2016 Presidential Election

Politics and religion.

Moderator: JasonNC


Snarky!
Posts: 13692
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:01 pm
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:31 pm
I think what convinced me to actually cast a vote for Trump was his willingness to meet with a group of Evangelical leaders and seemingly take their suggestions seriously.

I frankly don't believe my vote will make any difference one way or the other. I'm in a rural area and I've seen lots of Trump signs around (and not many Clinton signs), so I'd suspect he'll take my county handily. I don't know about NC overall, though.

Let's face it; protest vote all you want, but we're going to get either Trump or Clinton. Of the two, I fear Trump least. I am pretty well convinced that we'll never have an actual conservative President again either way.
Quote

Snarky!
Posts: 13692
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:01 pm
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:20 am
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/1525738950 ... assessment
Quote
User avatar
Woah! Double lightsaber! Double lightsaber all the way!
Posts: 6286
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:42 pm
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:34 am
I've made this point elsewhere, but I recall (as I'm sure Heli does) how, back in the 1992 Presidential election, evangelical leaders on the Right kept remarking how "Character matters." George H. W. Bush was getting raked over the coals for the failing economy and for breaking his "Read my lips" promise. But Bill Clinton already had a reputation as a womanizer and a bit of a slimy character, years before anyone had heard the name "Lewinski." Republicans and evangelicals argued that the Clinton's character made him unfit for the office of the President of the United States. The Democrat response to this was James Carville's infamous, "It's the economy, stupid!" Despite the fact that pretty much everyone with any knowledge of the contestants agreed that Bush, Sr. appeared to be a far more moral, honorable man than Clinton, Carville's reasoning won the day. Interestingly enough, I remember Peter Jennings pointing out, as Bush boarded the helicopter to depart as Clinton was sworn in, if the election had been held then, Bush would have won. Perhaps the character argument needed a few more weeks to percolate.

Flash forward to 2016, and we have James Dobson call Trump a "baby Christian" (which Trump has never himself claimed to be) only to learn that it was the Word of Faith (read: "heretical") preacher Paula White who had told Dobson she had witnessed Trump's conversion. Meanwhile, every word and action of Trump's has born nary a mark of the repentance and humility one would expect of a believer taking his first steps of faith (which again, Trump himself has never claimed he was). Frankly, the man's character makes Bill Clinton look downright good-natured. So why do so many evangelical leaders seem content to make excuses for his actions rather than repudiate them?

Well, the answer is not all of them do. Oh, certainly many are arguing the old "hold your nose" chestnut (although the even older "character matters" is nowhere on their lips), but many, like Al Mohler and Russell Moore, are warning Christians about tying their witness to such a morally reprehensible man. I am inclined to agree with these latter men. Even some of Trump's prior evangelical supporters (like Wayne Grudem) have had to apologize for coming out in favor of him in light of that infamous Access Hollywood video with Billy Bush (which got the latter fired from the Today show but seems to be fading from the memory of Republicans already as they head to the poles).

In short, I cannot, I will not vote for Donald Trump. I won't vote for Hillary Clinton either. Will one of them be the next President? Almost certainly.

But they don't have to get there with my vote.
Image
Quote

Snarky!
Posts: 13692
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:01 pm
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:28 am
Vote (or don't vote) however you want. I will continue my unbroken streak of pragmatically voting for the candidate whose policies I dislike least. I don't want either of the major choices, but I want Hillary Clinton significantly less.

I never claimed anything about Trump's faith, only that he was actually willing to meet with evangelicals and seemingly take their concerns seriously. It gave me a little hope that he might actually support policies I'd like once he was in office. Again, I can predict with about 99.9% certainty that wouldn't be true of a Clinton Presidency.

I'm not going to be out stumping for Trump or proudly wearing a Trump shirt, but I'm willing to give him a vote. If that tarnishes my witness, I guess I'll have to live with it.
Quote
User avatar
Woah! Double lightsaber! Double lightsaber all the way!
Posts: 6286
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:42 pm
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:56 pm
I'm not condemning you for your vote, bro, just stating my reasoning. Do whatever you deem wisest with your own vote.

I will say that, personally, I am far more concerned with my own witness than I am with who is in the White House. I am convinced my ability to make a difference in the world through the gospel is much greater than my ability to make a difference in the world at the ballot box.
Image
Quote

Snarky!
Posts: 13692
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:01 pm
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:57 am
You definitely have a good point. The actions we take in our personal lives every day make a lot more difference to eternity than what box we fill in one day a year. It's easy to get caught up in the "sports fan" mentality of politics, or even the temporal mentality of the world, and put too much emphasis on the wrong priorities.
Quote
User avatar
AJ Research Dept
Posts: 2881
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:14 am
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:21 am
In all honesty, I just want to see several dangerous, highly corrupt criminals masquerading as public servants go down. Ideally prison time, but a political fall from grace without prison may be pyrotechnic enough to be sufficient for now. At this point, I'm talking several Democratic politicians and bureaucratic appointees (maybe some Republocrats too). I genuinely believe that the FBI and individuals in other agencies are in possession of evidence that is far more damning than the mainstream press is leading us to believe (evidence enough to make tens of millions change their vote instantly). At this point, I think several Democratic politicians and bureaucratic appointees are involved. Charges, I think, may go beyond the usual perjury and obstruction of justice accusations being mentioned now. Anyway, any serious charge on even one or two would literally change the whole political playing field and make all the other rats scurry for their lives.

At this point, if I could vote, I would probably follow Heli's lead and vote for Trump as a strategic play. It's not because I think he's a wonderful person; it's purely strategic, and maybe he could slow down the planned disintegration/globalization of the country. If he wins, so much attention will be on the man, he will be forced to play it pretty straight and produce. Whatever happens, he will be hounded mercilessly, with 80% of the media already having declared against him, and he knows it. Any wrong move and knives will be out.

At this point, I'm not reflecting on Eternity. I'm thinking about how some serious application of Law can accomplish some genuine good here and now.
Quote
User avatar
Chief Commander of the Skrull Horde
Posts: 5019
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:20 pm
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:01 pm
Dorm wrote:If he wins, so much attention will be on the man, he will be forced to play it pretty straight and produce.


this notion is predicated on the American populous holding elected officials accountable. History has proven that over the last 40+ years, after November 8th, the vast majority of the populous goes back to caring about America's Got Talent, The Kardashians, and what Bennifer and Bradjolina are doing. I have zero faith there will be any scrutiny in place. Most Americans have no idea who their representatives are, let alone contact them regularly. They look for the little R or the little D next to the name on the ballot and pull the handle.
Quote
User avatar
Chief Commander of the Skrull Horde
Posts: 5019
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:20 pm
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:00 am
Daniel 8:25
"And through his shrewdness He will cause deceit to succeed by his influence; And he will magnify himself in his heart, And he will destroy many while they are at ease. He will even oppose the Prince of princes, But he will be broken without human agency.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

2 Corinthians 11:14
No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

Darth is the theologian of the group, but these passages have given me even greater pause in even remotely standing for Trump.
Quote

Snarky!
Posts: 13692
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:01 pm
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:24 am
b0bb33z3r wrote:
Dorm wrote:If he wins, so much attention will be on the man, he will be forced to play it pretty straight and produce.


this notion is predicated on the American populous holding elected officials accountable. History has proven that over the last 40+ years, after November 8th, the vast majority of the populous goes back to caring about America's Got Talent, The Kardashians, and what Bennifer and Bradjolina are doing. I have zero faith there will be any scrutiny in place. Most Americans have no idea who their representatives are, let alone contact them regularly. They look for the little R or the little D next to the name on the ballot and pull the handle.


I can't speak for Dorm, but at least for me, I wasn't talking about regular people; I was talking about the press. They hate Trump (and anyone with a little R), so they'll be all over him all the time. And the "low information voters" will believe whatever they hear on CNN or from their more activisty acquaintances.

Ultimately, you've got to decide what to do with your vote. For me, a vote to block Hillary Clinton seems like the best available move. For you, that may not be the case. Again, please do not think that I'm calling Donald Trump some kind of paragon or my ideal candidate, by a long shot.
Quote
PreviousNext

Return to It matters!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

cron