ISIS and the wars in Syria and Iraq

Politics and religion.

Moderator: JasonNC

User avatar
Chief Commander of the Skrull Horde
Posts: 5019
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:20 pm
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:03 pm
All I know is, as long as you have a free and protected 2nd Amendment and a populous exercising that right and remaining aware and vigilant, there is less to fear from potential terrorists. But we have several urban centers that grotesquely infringe on American's civil, inalienable human rights, and even most red states infringe as well.

When you have a government saying "trust the refugees, they're just here for help" out of one side of their mouth while saying "Americans cannot be trusted with something dangerous like a gun" out of the other side of their mouth, I am not even remotely filled with confidence in that government.

Oh and let's not forget, this is the government administration that let 2000+ firearms just walk, unchecked, into the hands of Mexican Drug Cartels.... oops.
Quote
User avatar
Woah! Double lightsaber! Double lightsaber all the way!
Posts: 6286
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:42 pm
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:08 pm
Can't argue with that.
Image
Quote

Snarky!
Posts: 13692
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:01 pm
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:00 pm
Darth Board wrote:David Crabb from Desiring God (John Piper's ministry) weighed in on this issue and (not too surprisingly) DG didn't fall down hard on one side of the politics of it. Instead they focused on being the Body of Christ in this situation that (as you rightly point out, my good buddy) we have no actual control over. What may be a risk for us nationally may still be an opportunity for us in the Gospel, and we should treat it as such, regardless of the decisions made by the state and federal government or our views on what should be done on an official level. It's a typically great piece from Desiring God:

http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/bui ... gee-crisis


That was a good article, indeed. And, again, I agree with the idea that we should seek to reach the refugees with God's love and truth. And David has an excellent, convicting (at least for me) point about filling our minds with God's word, rather than the opinions of political commentators. That doesn't change my skepticism regarding government screening, but it also doesn't need to. And, given that I am not an elected official, my opinion only has relevance in the realm of who I elect, so there you go.

I have a follow up question, though. Given the points presented in that article, do you think that we do not need to bother securing our southern border, given that it allows opportunities for possibly unchurched Mexican citizens to be reached in the US? Or is it the same situation; one is the government's responsibility, and one is the church's? Should we be attempting outreach efforts to illegal aliens, possibly encouraging more illegal immigration, in order to keep that evangelistic window open? (I'm asking legitimately, not just trying to make a point.)
Quote
User avatar
Woah! Double lightsaber! Double lightsaber all the way!
Posts: 6286
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:42 pm
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:08 pm
I think we should secure our borders, yes, and we don't want to encourage people to disrespect our sovereignty as a nation by coming here illegally. But we should definitely see to reach out to those who are here already. There are certainly occasions where breaking the law for the sake of the gospel is warranted (I have done so by sharing in countries where it was illegal to "proselytize") but only when there's no legal way to spread the Good News. If Mexicans were seeking asylum through official channels, asking for our help, I would see the situation more like the various refugee scenarios around the world.

Now, once they get here, that's another story. I do think there should be consequences for breaking the law, but the church still needs to show love and hospitality to those who are here, even as we point out their error (just as we should for criminals in prison). And we need to be especially kind to the children of illegals, because they are innocent (and if they were born here, they're American citizens and should be treated as such so long as that is the law of the land). We don't have to condone what they do or encourage it to reach out to them, and maybe the American church needs to send more people to Mexico to help the situation there.

I will add one more wrinkle to this that does make the situations a little bit different, though. Biblically, I perceive that God's heart is for the nations, particularly those that are really unreached, and while Mexico is a dark place spiritually in a lot of ways, the church is free to witness there, and they've had the gospel as long as we have. The Arabic peoples are far more cut off from the gospel, and as such, the opportunity is one that is more pressing. Obviously, one life/soul is not greater than another, but God's heart is for the nations, so if I'm going to focus my energy toward one or the other, the one with the lesser access to the gospel would be my preference.
Image
Quote
User avatar
AJ Research Dept
Posts: 2881
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:14 am
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:47 am
I just find it shocking that no one is questioning much. The general discussion in the West: Oh, a ton of refugees are coming, so let's talk about that within the very limited parameters of the premise.

There's no talk of...
1. Did our governments and secretive elites cause this? Looks that way, even according to officials.
2. If they caused it, should they seriously be held accountable? Are we talking Nuremberg style war crimes, given the extent of destruction and human suffering caused? Millions and millions displaced. Entire cities blasted.
3. Why isn't there a real effort to crush ISIS/ISIL/IS and then a real plan to return the refugees?
4. What about the 'refugees' who don't come from countries the West has directly or indirectly screwed? A lot of these guys openly say they're looking for money (real work or welfare).
5. Should Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Qatar be held accountable to a much greater extent, due to their trafficking in mercenaries and weapons? Shouldn't there be sanctions on these countries since they are effectively breaching an embargo on the importation of weapons?
6. Why are the refugees going to the richest countries, with the most generous social assistance programs?
7. What will happen to villages and small towns in Europe where the population will apparently double for an indefinite time? Who will pay for that? Who will manage the chaos? Will there be real integration under such strain? Will the European renters booted from apartments and houses held by their families for decades be properly relocated and placed in new jobs elsewhere?
8. Will some of the USGov taxpayer money allocated to supporting terrorists and mercenaries in Syria be diverted to actually helping dehoused Syrian civilians on the run?
9. Will the USGov covertly recruit and train Middle Eastern immigrants/refugees to use as dangerous intelligence assets, as they have done for decades? (They specialize in that.)
10. Israel is not accepting any Arab refugees whatsoever. In the West, we berate each other about racism and lack of generosity, but why is Israel's firm racist policy overlooked?
11. Why is everyone except Russia and Iran *really* so interested in erasing Assad when in peace time he oversaw and secured a tolerant, multicultural, multi-faith country that made many overtures to cooperate with T W A T (the war on terror)?

The West has been denied a discussion of these things and many more. Real democratic countries would clean house and get to the bottom of it, thus overturning the absurd narratives we're left with currently.
Quote
User avatar
AJ Research Dept
Posts: 2881
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:14 am
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 3:25 am
Russia is putting the hurt on the Syrian government's enemies

Beyond eliminating clusters of the enemy, the sure way to win a war is to strip the enemy of logistical capability and funds. Arms and ammo, fuel, supplies, food, money. A mercenary/gang army like Islamic State is especially vulnerable when its funding is hurt, since members have few loyalties beyond the coin.

Russia has recently destroyed 500 oil trucks used to smuggle oil out of Syria to the world's mysterious petroleum black market. Here's the latest Ruskie war-pR0n video of many trucks being blasted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgYbiCGYy2c

Here is Putin, in a giant military public relations production, overseeing total kick-assery from Russian HQ. Despite the pomp and showiness, many people have noticed that Putin is acting like an engaged leader and being respected as one in turn, unlike Obama who would never sit through something like this due to his golf schedule.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20pyZbCYxOg

After the Russians lost 200 civilians in the recent Sinai terrorist attack (more than the French in Paris, I might add), the Russian military decided to bring out the long-range strategic bombers. Tu-160s and Tu-22s are beastly despite their age. These were designed for WW3 back in the Cold War:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FM3AX_JnkQ

Finally, Russia shot off more cruise missiles. These are scary. Listen to it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eEeXxkkHug

It appears Russia is waging a real war against all hostile non-government armed groups in Syria, with an intention to escalate and win. Whereas NATO has just been very selective, firing at only certain targets from time to time, despite their ability to bring supposed terrorist groups to their knees in a short period.
Quote
User avatar
Woah! Double lightsaber! Double lightsaber all the way!
Posts: 6286
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:42 pm
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:41 am
Some demographic info on the refugees from FactCheck.org. This shows some of the numbers I was talking about earlier. I like Ben Carson, but as they point out, his numbers are wonky. As a friend of mine noted, apparently 72% of boat refugees on the Mediterranean to Europe were males, which may have been where he got his claim that 72% of all refugees were males of fighting age. But obviously, that number doesn't affect U.S. refugee immigration at all.

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/09/stretc ... -refugees/
Image
Quote
User avatar
Woah! Double lightsaber! Double lightsaber all the way!
Posts: 6286
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:42 pm
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:52 am
Dr. Russell Moore has spoken on the issue as well. I really appreciate his comments. He is, as always, right on point:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppins/co ... fa30bzoQe8

EDIT: He even wrote a whole op/ed at the Washington Post on the issue:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/act ... ee-crisis/
Image
Quote
User avatar
Woah! Double lightsaber! Double lightsaber all the way!
Posts: 6286
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:42 pm
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 1:24 pm
One more post (I'm turning into Dorm over here, posting multiples in the political forum!), and hopefully I'm done. This is from a pastor and immigration lawyer explaining the process of refugee resettlement and why it's not a good strategy for terrorists. Point one--they don't even get to pick which country they're going to:

http://www.martyduren.com/2015/11/20/th ... on-lawyer/
Image
Quote

Snarky!
Posts: 13692
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:01 pm
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:14 pm
Turns out it's a phantom problem, anyway. Hillary explained to everyone that Muslims have nothing to do with terrorism.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2 ... ueless.php

Whew! Load off my mind.
Quote
PreviousNext

Return to It matters!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron