Sandy Hook Shooting Investigation

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:47 pm
Part 2

Darth Board wrote:http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.1226040

Hmm, a lot of people in on that conspiracy, aren't there? Amazing how they all go along with it, and none of them break step with it. It's amazing how people are always like that, isn't it? They always go along with the program and are all really good at telling lies. They never get greedy enough to want to spill the beans on their huge conspiracies to some hotshot maverick news agency. But that's human nature for you.

No? That's not human nature at all, you say? Humans are guilt-ridden and greedy? They can't get compromise in Congress or even get along in families at least half the time? Celebrities can't keep their secrets about their nude photos, and politicians can't keep their mistresses hidden? Why yes, I suppose that's true. Well, these must be some extraordinary people involved in this conspiracy.

Heck, maybe they should be in charge. I guess our betters really are running things.

Thanks. I feel better already.
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First off, I've explained before that I don't know the fate of those children. It's obviously a very clouded, secretive affair. People have speculated a lot, some saying that all the children had died before. I don't subscribe to that speculation. It is, so far, totally unprovable.

What I do know, and can seen in the preceding essays, is that many lies and revealing things were told on the day that Sandy Hook happened.

The NYDailynews article. Are you telling me that -- in the conspiracy logic you're projecting onto me -- a man in a dark suit would approach Harry Connick Jr. and Javier Colon, the Hartford singer who won “The Voice” TV competition last year, and tell them this: "Guys, we want you to sing for a kid who wasn't really killed at Sandy Hook. So act sad and don't tell nobody. Thanks."...?

They're going to tell the The Rev. Paul Echtenkamp and Archbishop Leroy Bailey: "Pssst. Psst. We don't know you and, but we just want you to know that the kid you're sermonizing about wasn't killed at Sandy Hook. Don't tell nobody, ok?."... ?

Are you saying it would help 'the conspiracy' if all these strangers were let in on it?

Once again, I have no information as to the life, death, appearance, or disappearance of the supposed victim. So I can only talk about problems that can be shown as problems.

There's data -- which I'm going to make as current as possible in light of a few new pieces of evidence, when there's time -- that suggests....

1. Some cops lied, and/or had very revealing things to say (or acted in such a way) that countered the official story.
2. Some members of the media lied, and/or had revealing things to say that countered the official story.
3. Some witnesses lied, and/or had revealing things to say that countered the official story.
4. Photographic evidence, coroner/science reports, etc. revealed things that countered the official story.
5. The Children said the darnedest things....
6. These 'crimes' occurred in a way that was very different than what the official story said.

If anyone is interested in exploring those things, written in this thread, by all means.... That's all I have brought and all I can bring to the table. Attack that stuff.

Last point, I'm willing to update any information. This isn't an emotional thing for me. More scientific. I'm able to concede that I might have been hoodwinked on certain details, or misread something, and I can correct it and move on. I'm even willing to concede that maybe Sandy Hook happened as the official story stated... if and only if everything I found out has been reasonably explained via proof. Which also means a lot of published news and reports will have to be re-written by other authors too, because my stuff is based on their work.

We all know the event was weird and mysterious. Just how weird is something that's still being processed.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:58 pm
You're still not seeing it.

No, I'm not saying they brought all these people in on it. I'm saying if there were an "it" (which there wasn't) they would have to have been "in" to have been involved in the funeral, because either it was a real funeral or it wasn't, and if you're doing the funeral, attending the funeral, whatever, and no one actually died, you're going to know that.

You said you weren't convinced people died. But there were funerals. So either people died, or a lot (a LOT) of people lied. You can't keep a secret like that at such close range. It doesn't work.

So again, I say...

REAL. PEOPLE. DIED.

And that's why all the conspiracy stuff (that's fun to speculate on and pretend like it's real) is so offensive to me in this particular case. Children died. They were killed by a madman at their school. If you think that this government could fake that for going on two years without a hint of a crack, the least of which would cause a major public outrage ("public" being the operative word here--as opposed to "internet site frequented by those with a conspiratorial confirmation bias"), which there isn't, then I'm sorry. There's no point in me opening evidence or responding to yours.

I've investigated several of the claims, Dorm. I have. The reason I don't respond in detail is because I've got other, better things to do. They just don't warrant the scrutiny. There ain't enough there. I've shown you in the past how photos you think so clearly are off could easily fit with the official descriptions perfectly, but you just couldn't see it. Go back to earlier in the thread. I did that. It didn't change anything. It never does, because you're always going to buy the conspiracy theory when there is one. You have done so every time. It's called a confirmation bias. It means you weigh more heavily the evidence that is in favor of what you believe and more lightly that which doesn't seem to aid your worldview. The more I discuss worldview with people the more convinced I am that we all have them. And just because you don't buy into someone else's conspiracy hypothesis once in a while doesn't mean belief in conspiracy is not your bias, especially because, let's face it, when that happens, it usually just means you're just following another conspiracy you like better instead.

Dorm, I don't believe everything I'm told, certainly not everything I'm told by the media. No one in their right mind whose paying attention would do that. But I also don't subscribe to the most subversive theories just because they interest me more. Instead, I ask if it makes sense in light of the evidence and what I know of humanity. Because we're all of us human, the politicians, the movers-and-shakers, the bloggers, the believers, the skeptics, all of us. A certain position or way of thinking doesn't stop someone from being subject to the same frailties or from seeking the same positives as everyone else. At least it doesn't for long, and it doesn't infallibly.

I've been working a job where my employers have a pretty good idea of how everyone I've been sent to talk to is voting. The people I work for are not inside the government. They're citizens. They know how to find facts. It's easier than ever now. So easy that I know that that little girl who was supposedly killed at Sandy Hook but showed up at the White House after was 1) actually killed at Sandy Hook but 2) didn't actually show up at the White House (it was her younger sister wearing her dress). It's how I know about the public outrage over the lawsuit that the petition was made for (a petition that had to be made publicly) and how when I get the response that "no serious lawyer would...," I read that as, "Yes, there's a major flaw in the hypothesis I'm following, but I can find a way for it to not be a flaw, so let me just work that...Got it."

Are there irregularities? Of course there are. There always are, and the harder you look for them, the more of them you find and the more "irregular" they seem to become. But that's always the case, because we never know the whole story of something, especially something that didn't happen to us personally. It's like the old illustration of the three blind men trying to describe the elephant.

But to latch onto every one of those irregularities as if they all have equal weight to every other piece evidence just so you can believe there's more of a mystery there, something that will make sense of things beyond just the situation at hand, is just not a rational way of looking at a major event. There will always be pieces that don't fit, because we're not omniscient, and people don't always do the logical thing, and even when they do, we can't see all the pieces of another person's logic. But there would have to be a lot more of those for something like Sandy Hook to be faked. The ones you've presented (the ones that haven't been debunked entirely, that is) are such a small part of the whole story that we should expect that much irregularity in any story that large.

But how you interpret those irregularities can speak more to who you are than to what the facts are. It's like thinking a microscope is a telescope, just because they both make things look bigger. In one case, big things that are far away seem closer; in the other, small things that are close seem bigger. To read an event as truthfully as possible, one needs to be able to tell the difference.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:21 am
Darth, I read your whole post several times. I doubt you'd do the same for mine, but hey, whatever. It's just the internut.

But thank you. More than ever now, I understand loud and clear that you don't want to talk about the information that I didn't make up -- the information that was published in a variety of respected sources (newspapers, magazines, police reports, etc.). Yes, it was created by other human beings besides me, and it revealed things that many people suspiciously noticed long before I saw it. Once again, it's not about me, as much as you're trying to make it to be (to contain the controversy to one person, as opposed to a larger issue). The info is not speculation. Most of it -- coming from the public sphere -- is praised as being informative and even authoritative.

We've talked about the speculation of what people might be thinking, and scenarios of this and that funeral, which is all fine, but ultimately useless. I'll let you debate yourself about how a bunch of non-family members invited to a funeral could or could not believe they actually are at a real funeral.

By the way, the 'real' funerals were every odd. In several cases, the parents were smiling like crazy people. Yes, like crazy people. Their kids were supposedly blown away and they looked like they're at a tea party. Sorry, tons of people noticed it, and it's messed up.

I won't disrespect you with all sorts of useless psychologizing, rhetoric, and talking about worldviews and confirmation biases. And a new job I got how I talk to people. I won't preach to you on how you supposedly think, or go on and on about simple analogies.

That's all fine and good, Darth, but it doesn't poke a stick at the data which "you have better things to do" than look at. Wow.

I've been working a job where my employers have a pretty good idea of how everyone I've been sent to talk to is voting. The people I work for are not inside the government. They're citizens. They know how to find facts. It's easier than ever now. So easy that I know that that little girl who was supposedly killed at Sandy Hook but showed up at the White House after was 1) actually killed at Sandy Hook but 2) didn't actually show up at the White House (it was her younger sister wearing her dress). It's how I know about the public outrage over the lawsuit that the petition was made for (a petition that had to be made publicly) and how when I get the response that "no serious lawyer would...," I read that as, "Yes, there's a major flaw in the hypothesis I'm following, but I can find a way for it to not be a flaw, so let me just work that...Got it."


Why do you keep bringing up stuff that I have never written about? I never talked about the Parker girl supposedly showing up with Obama. That's an obvious soft-ball hoax designed to make the research look silly. It's see-through stupid. Why are you telling me this? And what are you talking about "A major flaw in the hypothesis I'm following" because a stupid lawyer was obviously acting like a total non-professional idiot with no mind to really pursue the case...? Darth, the lawyer talked a bunch of crap, poisoned the well, and left, consequence free. Duh. He set the precedent: those who wish to sue want $100 million. Why? Won't say in detail. Oh, I'm withdraw the suit and hitting the talk-shows. Come on.

I don't think I'll be responding to any further things you say on this subject. You leave your comments in these kind of threads, pretend that you're not upset. So I respond, thinking you'd actually look at the research in this thread; then you dance around facts and go on about everything but.

I'm tired. You've turned it into a personal thing, writing increasingly more about me and you than the actual data. So no more response.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:25 am
I'm sorry if I've offended you, Dorm. I really am. I don't want to belittle you or your opinions, but clearly I have done so, and that's wrong. I get offended thinking about those who have suffered and I wanted you to think beyond the borders of how you're used to thinking. I think we have that, at least, in common.

The "better things to do" comment does sound very dismissive and arrogant, but it wasn't meant to. Let me clarify. What I mean is I have a lot going on in my life, and while it's fun to speculate about things, it doesn't affect the world around me, and there are things I can do in my life that actually do that, both for myself and for others. To spend time researching something where the truth seems pretty clear and the anomalies pretty small (to me, at least) takes me away from those things. But so does posting here in the first place, so I'm sorry for saying that. It was hypocritical at best, dismissive and mean at worst.

As for the scenarios I cited, I was trying to make the point that I have looked into this enough to see a lot of the major questions posed (if not the ones specifically posed by you) just don't seem to add up to much. But you're right that I've not respected your research or opinions like I should have. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have responded so passionately if I wasn't taking the time to look into everything you're saying. I should have let it go or just not said anything in the first place.

So now, I'll let it go. And I'll try to look into what you've posted a little more thoroughly when I have a chance. Who knows? Maybe there is more than what we've been shown. Maybe not. But I shouldn't have said so much without doing all the research. That at least is definitely true.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:37 am
I high school friend of mine's 19 yr old son and his girlfriend were killed in a car crash the night before my oldest daughter's high school graduation. I actually went to high school with both parents, but I knew the mom better. So I went to the funeral, and while I was very chocked up and emotional, I was impressed with how calm his mom was. I talked to her briefly after the funeral and commented on how impressed I was that she was able to deliever the eulogy to calmly. She said, "Maybe there's something wrong with me, but I feel fine." She was actually warm and smiling as she spoke with me.

So does that mean the whole thing was a hoax and these two teens did not actually wrap their car around a telephone pole? I've known her a very long time, and she's a wonderful, warm, funny individual. But there ya have it, very perplexing behavior from my perspective. But I think her son really died. I think it really happened. And I guess I just felt that, I just can't fathom experiencing what had just happened to her. So I don't try to understand why she was so calm and pleasant.

People smile at funerals Dorm. Even parents in shock. Unless you can tell me your child has been killed, and you can tell me first hand how everyone, EVERYONE reacts to that.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:40 am
PS - My memory isn't photographic. I don't remember for sure if it was the day before my daughter's graduation, or the day after. But they happened pretty close together. If I got the date wrong, it wasn't to be deceptive, or mean that it didn't happen.
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